![Damage Damage](/uploads/1/3/4/3/134355626/905255730.jpg)
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Path Of Exile Weapon Elemental Damage Support
% Increased Elemental Damage with weapons seems to be a lot weaker than people assume it is, perhaps unintentionally. It seems to only work off the base damage of a weapon(the one written on the weapon itself, taking into account local phys% and possibly local phys+). If you have a 100 damage weapon, with 400% extra physical damage from your tree, and 100% elemental damage with weapons. You turn on a level 10 hatred(30%). Your physical damage will be 500. Your cold damage will be 500 * 30% = 150 without the 100% elemental damage, and an extra 100(base damage) * 100%(elemental scaling) * 30% = 30 damage from your 100% elemental damage. This also works similarly for infernal blow and added fire damage. Essentially, % elemental damage with weapons is really poor for %phys conversion builds. Below I attached some numbers from experimenting on one of my characters. Anyone interested can follow the methodology there to prove to themselves that elemental damage with weapons interacts this way. Testing on my marauder, who has the catalyse nodes - 40% increased elemental damage with weapons. 360 strength, 35% phys damage from tree - ~107% increased physical damage. Wielding a white dream mace(19-39) Tooltip default attack: 39-81 physical damage. Tooltip level 1 hatred(26%): 12-25 cold. Expected damage: 81(base) * 0.26(hatred) * 1.4(40% increased ele dmg) = 29.4 topend. Theorized reason for damage: 81 * 0.26 = 21 damage. If you multiply the base weapon damage(39) by both the ele and the hatred modifiers - 39 * 0.26 * 0.4 = 4.056 damage. 21 + 4 = 25 as shown in tooltip. Gear switch to 350 strength causes default attack to drop to 39-80. Testing with level 10 hatred(30%): 14-28 cold. Expected damage: 80 * 0.3 * 1.4 = 33.6 topend. Theory holds tentatively: 80 * 0.3 = 24 damage. 39 * 0.3 * 0.4 = 4.68. 24 + 4.68 = expected rounding to 29, but very close outcome. Testing with spiked maul, base damage 28-52. Spiked maul has 112% increased physical damage local - 59-110. Increases: 70%(350 str) + 35% physical + 48% physical with 2h = +153%. Default attack damage: 149-278, as expected by modifiers. Adding level 1 hatred(26%): 45-84 cold shown. Intuitively expected damage: 278 * 0.26 * 1.4 = 101 topend. Theory holds: 278 * 0.26 = 72.28. 110 * 0.26 * 0.4 = 11.44. 72.28 + 11.44 ~= 84. Seems that the locally increased physical damage is taken into account when scaling with weapon elemental. Testing with level 10 hatred(30%): 51-96 cold. Intuitively expected damage: 278 * 0.3 * 1.4 = 116.76 topend. Theory holds tentatively: 278 * 0.3 = 83.4. 110 * 0.3 * 0.4 = 13.2. 83.4 + 13.2 ~= 97. Here's some testing with infernal blow and added fire: level 1 infernal blow, 125% base damage, 50% converted to fire. Using the same spiked maul as before with the same gear setup. Infernal blow displays 93-174 damage, as expected. (149-278 * 1.25 * 0.5) Infernal blow displays 108-201 fire damage, an increase of 15-27 due to weapon elemental damage. Testing the theory, we take the 110 base damage * 1.25 (infernal blow base modifier) * 0.5(infernal blow fire damage) * 0.4 ( elemental damage) = 27. Theory holds. Attaching added fire damage(level 10, 29%) increases fire damage to 171-318. Compared to the previous fire damage, we get a 63-117 damage increase. Testing the theory. 278 * 1.25 * 0.29 = 100.7 topend damage without any elemental scaling. Take the base damage, 110 * 1.25 * 0.29 = ~16 topend from the elemental scaling, which tentatively adds up to 117 damage topend. My investigation was inspired by this thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/587505/, where the OP was getting unexpectedly low increases from an amulet with the same stat that catalyse should provide(increased elemental damage with weapons) If this is WAD, then the elemental damage with weapons stat is MUCH worse than players seem to value it. Last edited by BGSacho on Nov 7, 2013, 12:53:50 AM | Posted by BGSacho on Nov 7, 2013, 12:36:31 AM |
/bump Interesting find! What about Added Fire Damage, the support gem? If you're leaving PoE, chances are I'll rezz you as my minion! MWHAHAHAH | Posted by Mune on Nov 7, 2013, 4:10:03 AM |
Posted by on Nov 7, 2013, 11:30:54 AM | |
Working as intended. Damage Based On and Conversion happens before multipliers. The new damage also benefits from source-type bonuses. 100 Physical Damage 400% Increased Phys, 100% Increased Elemental 30% Added as Cold -> 100 Phys, 30 Cold Damage Phys: 100 * (1 + (400/100)) = 500 Cold: 30 * (1 + (400/100) + (100/100)) = 180 (sans 100% Elem -> 30 * 5 = 150) The reason it works this way is because Increased and Reduced are supposed to be additive modifiers. Multiplying before and after Conversion causes them to be multiplicative. And yes, Increased Elem is weak for builds with shedloads of Increased Damage. Pretty widely known. On the other hand, it is still kickass for builds that, you know, actually have Base Elemental damage. Last edited by Vipermagi on Nov 7, 2013, 3:32:44 PM | Posted by on Nov 7, 2013, 3:30:22 PM |
I don't think it was widely known, but I can accept that's it WAD. | Posted by BGSacho on Nov 7, 2013, 6:48:22 PM |
Bumping this back from the dead. For further clarification. Based on this formula: 100(base damage) * 100%(elemental scaling) * 30% = 30 damage from your 100% elemental damage. If I have another mod that add say 20 cold damage. Will it be add before the 100% elemental damage apply? So it will be 30damage from hatred + 20 cold modifier = 50*100% weapon elemental damage = 50 cold damage total? thxs. | Posted by Riven7 on Nov 18, 2013, 6:58:02 AM |
Increased Elemental Damage will apply to the Cold Damage. It's entirely separate from Hatred. | Posted by on Nov 18, 2013, 7:58:14 PM |
' What are you saying? IGN: ZYX_ZYX | Posted by Riven7 on Nov 19, 2013, 8:46:46 PM |
Um. Exactly what I wrote? If you have 20 Cold damage and 100% Increased Elemental Damage, the Cold damage will benefit from that Inc. Elemental Damage. You'll get 40 Cold Damage. It is calculated separately from Hatred because it's a different source of Cold Damage, and different modifiers apply (Hatred's Cold does benefit from %Phys Damage for example). Last edited by Vipermagi on Nov 19, 2013, 9:28:10 PM | Posted by on Nov 19, 2013, 9:27:55 PM |
I recently found this too. It seems that it does not work right with % physical conversion. Before I get 8% Increased Elemental Damage with Weapons, my top fire damage was like 677(added fire damage gem). But after I use that 8%, my top fire damage became 680. This is not right. Please fix this, GGG. | Posted by WillyHsu on Jan 16, 2014, 4:35:29 PM |